How do you sort pellets?

[neophyte]

Mga gurus, ask lang po kung pa'no mag sort ng pellets, and tanong na rin kung gaano ka importe ito? At ano naman po ang pellet resizing? Sensya na po di ko po kasi na try at di rin ako makahanap ng magandang topic about the subject. Tnx po in advance.

Good day to all.

[batmon]

for me basic sorting lang ginagawa ko visual check lang for deformities.dpat parepareha ang shape n height,skirts should have no dents.if u have a digi scale the better para parepareha ang weight ng pellets.consistency sa shots makukuha mo by sorting.

c bro height ang expert nito. ;D

[twoshotsnokill]

try a pellet resizer.

[heightaddict]

Jul 2, 2008 16:32:31 GMT 8 batmon said:

for me basic sorting lang ginagawa ko visual check lang for deformities.dpat parepareha ang shape n height,skirts should have no dents.if u have a digi scale the better para parepareha ang weight ng pellets.consistency sa shots makukuha mo by sorting.

c bro height ang expert nito sana mabasa nya. ;D

yes Batmon is right. sorting is one way of eliminating unwanted fliers (not 100%) or a way to shrink that group. JSB is one of the top pellet makers because they sort their pellets before packing. though they may be the same batch but the mold is unique. if you noticed ex. Quick Silver; you have different dimples for a pellet in a box.

heres what to do:

1. if you have a digital scale (good for you) try to weight them and group them.

2. if you dont have a scale: sort them by pellet head diameter (my personal choice) been sorting and recording the difference between pellet dimple, thickness etc. i found out that sorting pellet head diameter has a higher percentage of getting good groups.

HERE'S HOW I SORT THE DIAMETER OF PELLET HEAD




this is my resizer. its drilled and reamed using a tapered reamer. i can also use this to sort pellet head size. difference usually is around 1/4" from entrance. i use the oversize pellethead as to the undersize

[neophyte]

Tnx a lot mga gurus, now I understand how its done.

One more thing sir heightaddict, yun pong resizer nyo, Is that available in AG shops or malls na nagbebenta ng AG or custom made po ba? Dunno if this is a dumb question: me reference po ba yung butas ng resizer? i.e. same hole as the barrel? or an ideal size of pellet head?

Sensya na po sa kakulitan, gusto ko lang po maintindihan ang process, wag sana kayo magsawa sumagot. Tnx po ulit.

[heightaddict]

Jul 3, 2008 5:04:02 GMT 8 neophyte said:

Tnx a lot mga gurus, now I understand how its done.

One more thing sir heightaddict, yun pong resizer nyo, Is that available in AG shops or malls na nagbebenta ng AG or custom made po ba? Dunno if this is a dumb question: me reference po ba yung butas ng resizer? i.e. same hole as the barrel? or an ideal size of pellet head?

Sensya na po sa kakulitan, gusto ko lang po maintindihan ang process, wag sana kayo magsawa sumagot. Tnx po ulit.

its custom made. make sure your reamer can do 6mm and lower. para mapasok mo ang pellet and resize it to your preference or rather barrel preference.

heres an example: you can experiment with different pellet diameter by marking you probe like this. this is also true with imported pellets (why they have the 5.52;5.53 dia)

[younggun]

heightaddict

sir meron po ako mahihiraman ng digi scale ang tanong ko po kailangan pa rin ba e resize ang pellet after ma scale?o hindi na kailangan?

[heightaddict]

Jul 3, 2008 11:04:00 GMT 8 younggun said:

heightaddict

sir meron po ako mahihiraman ng digi scale ang tanong ko po kailangan pa rin ba e resize ang pellet after ma scale?o hindi na kailangan?

that depends. i resize them because i have a Lothar barrel. our pellets is oversize. if you get good groups by sorting, i think you dont need to resize. do some experiment with different pellet diameter....take to the account groove markings and friction is also a factor.

[younggun]

Jul 3, 2008 12:15:48 GMT 8 heightaddict said:

Jul 3, 2008 11:04:00 GMT 8 younggun said:

heightaddict

sir meron po ako mahihiraman ng digi scale ang tanong ko po kailangan pa rin ba e resize ang pellet after ma scale?o hindi na kailangan?

that depends. i resize them because i have a Lothar barrel. our pellets is oversize. if you get good groups by sorting, i think you dont need to resize. do some experiment with different pellet diameter....take to the account groove markings and friction is also a factor.

thank you po.

[neophyte]

Maraming salamat po sir height and sir batmon sa inputs and quick replies to my inquiries.

[snyper]

This is a nice discussion, If I may add. What I do is the following:

1. Visual sorting by removing pellets that have deformities - like deformed skirts, impurities during molding, etc.

In the picture below(pardon for the blurry images,its an old camera) I sort out the pellets that way so i can see the skirts, I have noticed that the skirts are not of the same thickness. More on this later. For now all the pellets are free of deformities and ready for weighing.


2. Next is weight Sorting, use a digital scale to sort the pellets by weight. To do this you will need a small/pocket scale that can read grams or grain with at least .1gr increments. A .01gr incrementing scale would be best.

Here's a recent scale I bought from the states (courtesy of a friend). Mura lang kasi $23 dollars lang kasama na calibration weight. It works, though I wanted something better.


3. Re-sort visually, as mentioned in step 1, the skirts don't have the same thickness, so as an added step I try to re-sort those pellets with thick and thin skirts (that is kung sipagin ako).

4. Then use a resizer just like what bro height has shown above. In my opinion, even if you have the same pellet weight it is also good to ensure that the pellets have uniform fit with the barrel to consistent sealing. The premise here is that even if you have the same pellet weight but no consistent sealing with the barrel then the pressure exerted on the two pellets will be (slightly)different.

Bottom line is whatever process you do sorting is an effective way of producing more consistent shots. We do this because as bro height mentioned locally made pellets do not have any pre-sorting from the factory. Unlike some imported brands that are sorted (by hand) before packaging.

[batmon]

heightaddict,snyper

two thumbs up mga bro! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

bro height try mo super zero suggestion lang.

[heightaddict]

Jul 4, 2008 6:49:38 GMT 8 batmon said:

heightaddict,snyper

two thumbs up mga bro! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

bro height try mo super zero suggestion lang.

been using super zero for a long time. currently, out of stock sya. sa BR im using quick silver right now, its lighter and i get more fps using it

[heightaddict]

Jul 3, 2008 18:44:23 GMT 8 snyper said:

This is a nice discussion, If I may add. What I do is the following:

1. Visual sorting by removing pellets that have deformities - like deformed skirts, impurities during molding, etc.

In the picture below(pardon for the blurry images,its an old camera) I sort out the pellets that way so i can see the skirts, I have noticed that the skirts are not of the same thickness. More on this later. For now all the pellets are free of deformities and ready for weighing.


2. Next is weight Sorting, use a digital scale to sort the pellets by weight. To do this you will need a small/pocket scale that can read grams or grain with at least .1gr increments. A .01gr incrementing scale would be best.

Here's a recent scale I bought from the states (courtesy of a friend). Mura lang kasi $23 dollars lang kasama na calibration weight. It works, though I wanted something better.


3. Re-sort visually, as mentioned in step 1, the skirts don't have the same thickness, so as an added step I try to re-sort those pellets with thick and thin skirts (that is kung sipagin ako).

4. Then use a resizer just like what bro height has shown above. In my opinion, even if you have the same pellet weight it is also good to ensure that the pellets have uniform fit with the barrel to consistent sealing. The premise here is that even if you have the same pellet weight but no consistent sealing with the barrel then the pressure exerted on the two pellets will be (slightly)different.

Bottom line is whatever process you do sorting is an effective way of producing more consistent shots. We do this because as bro height mentioned locally made pellets do not have any pre-sorting from the factory. Unlike some imported brands that are sorted (by hand) before packaging.

the digi scale looks cool .....

[batmon]

nothing to do yesterday sorting & scaling nalang pinagkaabalahan ko manage to do 6 boxes of super zero nakakaduling took me 3hrs.
did some testing 4 shots lang duling2x na kasi ako.
[/img]
digi scale courtesy of snyper tnx bro.

L to R superzero,quicksilver,eaglehead,hammerhead
[img src="[/img]i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii50/jrbm1065/07092008280-002.jpg"]

[snyper]

This is an article I have come across in the YELLOW FORUM, a more technical and tedious way of sorting pellets.


There is one strategy I have hinted on a number of occasions but from memory not explained ... Scott in Colorado may have some curiosity satisfied.

I will not claim that anyone following this procedure will or will not benefit above what they may currently undertake in their own treatments. Nor do I think you will necessarily notice any difference out to normal air gun ranges of 50 metres or so. I think I notice about 0.20" to 0.25" at 100 yards in best conditions in groups that average around 1.15" to 1.35" or so. My very best groups have come when using the full Monty.......

Here goes: - on serious pellet batching with inclusion of a couple of discriminatory procedures that I have developed these last four or five years. I have PCPs in mind and in particular the JSB Exact .22 pellet.

I emphasize that the current pellet that stands above all others for my purpose ( from my two PCPs ) of long range group shooting is the JSB .22 cal Exact 15.9 gr round nose with a BC of 0.036 / 7 / 8 depending which altitude range I am shooting ( corrects to 0.032 / 3 at sea level ) from my BSA Hornet and RWS Excalibre, both FAC 27 to 28 fpe.

After washing and rinsing if you think that to be necessary .....: Take 1 to 5 in the order indicated.

# 1. Inspect inside skirt lips with a magnifier for excess lead flashing and other fixed debris that could contribute to unbalancing the pellet in flight. Look for gaps in the edge of the skirt lip. Put any rejects aside for future specific research tests or plinking.

Normal clean skirt:


One with flashing in a batch that slipped by the excellent quality control of JSB some years ago.



# 2. Weigh and batch sort the clean pellets into three or more weights. I find good powder balance scales to be sensitive to perhaps 1/20 th gr by interpolation .....
The assumption is that the heaviest are the normal pellets that have properly filled the die in the stamping process and do not have an excess of air bubbles / air pockets. ( Note the reject pellets with additional flashing may have also weighed at the heavier end of the scale ).

# 3. The Yrrah Roll: I developed this to discriminate the ratio of pellet head size to pellet skirt size. I tried measuring the heads and skirts with calipers and a micrometer but was not satisfied that the measurements did not in fact introduce a ding into the soft lead; and it is almost impossible to measure the lips of head and also skirts in a way that does not have some angle. So the Yrrah Roll goes like this.

See picture worth a thousand words . .. .



The skirt of each pellet is placed against a unit mark on a ruler that is stuck upside down to a glass top table. It is upside down so that the edge touching the pellet is at half pellet height above the glass surface. This facilitates pellet alignment. Much care to be taken here in aligning the pellet so that both head and skirt touch the ruler. If it feels wrong it probably is wrong. Some skill will develop with practice.

Now the table should have the tiniest tilt. Stack a leg with paper to get the required tilt that will allow the pellet to roll when given the tiniest encouragement, either by gently blowing through a straw or touching with the softest feather...... The pellet now rolls in an arc according to its head to skirt diameters ratio. The second ruler is placed such that after the pellet has rolled a reasonable distance the second ruler is located tangentially to the incoming pellet.

OK so we roll the pellets and as each one arrives at the second ruler we transfer it across to the other side of the ruler standing on its skirt to be batched with similarly indexed pellets. See pic...... You will notice that there will be a somewhat normal bell curve discriminating the different arcs taken by the pellets.

Now the ones that describe the tightest arcs have the biggest difference between their head size and their skirt size......... OK, that is established but that does not mean that those which have been batched together all have the same head size and skirt size as one another. The RATIO however is the same.

# 4. In order to now discriminate head size and re-batch the Yrrah Rolled pellets into further sub units we need to group them according to head diameter. That will sort them into those that not only have the same ratio of head to skirt diameter but also the heads and skirts must logically be sorted according to size. .... I have already indicated that I do not like using calipers or micrometers but if you have a three point micrometer of suitable dimensions ( if such exists ) and the necessary skills you may try it!... I use a simple method that seems to work..... Others have done this ( Anthony and probably others ) so it is not my innovation.



It requires patience and trial and error but it works. ... Adjust a caliper to an approximate head size and lay a pellet on the gap. With some manipulation the caliper gap can be so adjusted as to allow some pellet heads to drop through while their skirts, being larger, get hung up. With trial and error you can batch the pellets into say three different head sizes. ( Take little notice of what is written on the tin, it may or may not be close, and in any case I have yet to find that I cannot re batch into about three different sizes. Head size differences may mean slight differences in the dynamics of chambering into the bore.

# 5. The HFI test:

We now have numerous batches of pellets sitting in all those spare empty tins you thought you would never use ... Mark each tin according to some category you have dreamed up. Numbers and letters in combinations may be better than worded descriptions ( Think binomials ) ...............
We are finished or almost finished batching depending upon whether or not all the pellets came from the same die lot. We will now establish that and at the same time prepare each pellet for index loading into our rifle... Requirements are a magnifying glass and a waterproof permanent felt pen with a fine point.

HFI Test : Using the magnifying glass and in good light, peer up the shirts of the pellets into the hollow recess. What you will see is a "fingerprint" from the die stamper. It will probably look like a pattern of criss crossed lines. (I am still talking of JSB Exact .22s remember as they are the best small bore long range pellet and if you don't have a rifle that loves them then start saving ) ..

After some practice you will get to recognize the "fingerprint" pattern. JSBs never seem to have pellets from different dies in the one tin but from tin to tin over the years I have come to recognize a number of different stampings. .... OK, with your fine tipped permanent marker felt pen you now place an indexing dot on the outside of the pellet skirt to identify one and the same particular aspect of the fingerprint you see inside the pellet. Put each back into its own batched tin. ...... If you find different stampings from different dies then of course they must be batched separately........ If you use other types of pellets, you will have to find " fingerprints" perhaps of a different kind.

When long range serious shooting time arrives, I draw pellets for each five or ten shot group from the same batches. The ones that weighed the heaviest ( the pellets should have batched into at least three different weights ) are saved for the most serious attempts when conditions are near perfect..

Now if you have a single shot rifle like my BSA Hornet, then you will index the felt pen spot such that each pellet is loaded into the chamber in precisely the same orientation. The reason for this is to account for any fractional imperfections of the particular die, be they real or imagined. If real then you are accounting to some extent for their geometric qualities such that any imbalance will be similarly dealt with by the rifle and barrel such that the pellets will emerge from the crown with the same orientation and therefore have a chance of setting off in the same direction and trajectory.... If you have a repeater then you orientate the index mark such that as the magazine rotates into position, the pellets will be similarly indexed into the chamber.

Well there you have my most fastidious batching strategies and they should be done in the order of 1 to 5 as above.......... You may or may not find this of interest, I hope you get something from it........... Kind regards, Harry in OZ.

[lhanjoe111810]

Jul 3, 2008 18:44:23 GMT 8 snyper said:

This is a nice discussion, If I may add. What I do is the following:

1. Visual sorting by removing pellets that have deformities - like deformed skirts, impurities during molding, etc.

In the picture below(pardon for the blurry images,its an old camera) I sort out the pellets that way so i can see the skirts, I have noticed that the skirts are not of the same thickness. More on this later. For now all the pellets are free of deformities and ready for weighing.


2. Next is weight Sorting, use a digital scale to sort the pellets by weight. To do this you will need a small/pocket scale that can read grams or grain with at least .1gr increments. A .01gr incrementing scale would be best.

Here's a recent scale I bought from the states (courtesy of a friend). Mura lang kasi $23 dollars lang kasama na calibration weight. It works, though I wanted something better.


3. Re-sort visually, as mentioned in step 1, the skirts don't have the same thickness, so as an added step I try to re-sort those pellets with thick and thin skirts (that is kung sipagin ako).

4. Then use a resizer just like what bro height has shown above. In my opinion, even if you have the same pellet weight it is also good to ensure that the pellets have uniform fit with the barrel to consistent sealing. The premise here is that even if you have the same pellet weight but no consistent sealing with the barrel then the pressure exerted on the two pellets will be (slightly)different.

Bottom line is whatever process you do sorting is an effective way of producing more consistent shots. We do this because as bro height mentioned locally made pellets do not have any pre-sorting from the factory. Unlike some imported brands that are sorted (by hand) before packaging.

naay bligya ana dri pinas sir? bcn naa panay kaluha sir atong pliton... ;D ;D ;D

[rom69erz]

bai, try this one. its only cost P520.00 plus shipping.


www.sulit.com.ph/index.php/view+classifieds/id/3235631/Digital+gold+scale+jewelry+scale+%28100g%2C200g/0.01g%29%28with+warranty%29?referralKeywords=digital+scale



just buy the 100g/0.01gr model

i dunno how long it will last since it was made in china ;D

[lhanjoe111810]

Nov 20, 2011 16:53:29 GMT 8 rom69erz said:

bai, try this one. its only cost P520.00 plus shipping.


www.sulit.com.ph/index.php/view+classifieds/id/3235631/Digital+gold+scale+jewelry+scale+%28100g%2C200g/0.01g%29%28with+warranty%29?referralKeywords=digital+scale



just buy the 100g/0.01gr model

i dunno how long it will last since it was made in china ;D

tnkz sir rom...naa mn silay 500g nga model kdto diay di diay to pwde?

og ask lang jud ko... pila mnjud EXACT weight sa standard 1 pc pellet?....salamat daan.

[batmon]

why buy a 500g scale? ang average pellet weight is just 1-1.2gms

[lhanjoe111810]

ah ok tnk u sir...mzta sir mignaw mnlgi ta kdli?hehehehe

[snyper]

We use a 50g model the one pictured above was sold last year to a (FA) shooter friend. The smaller capacity scale allows for much precision and as batmon mentioned we are talking about a few grams. And if you intend to buy one, choose a mode that has at least two decimal points of accuracy. i.e 1.00 compared to a 1.0 even better if you get your hands to 1.000 but that is overkill already.

That is why if you don't have the patience then go for imported pellets like JSB. Saves you the time and headache.

Good day to all, Happy shooting

[lhanjoe111810]

Nov 25, 2011 5:13:08 GMT 8 snyper said:

That is why if you don't have the patience then go for imported pellets like JSB. Saves you the time and headache.

Good day to all, Happy shooting

gud day sir snyper,ang ingon ni sir batmon nga ang imported pellets is 5.52mm tpos ang armscor barrel is 5.64mm...so dli ko ka gmit ana nga pellets sir ky luag ra daw na pra skong armscor...

imo psabot nga i'll go to imported pelets,cgro kong akong gmit PCP na... ;D ;D ;D

[snyper]

obviously, you cannot use imported pellets on an armscor barrel. The point of the discussion above was about pellet sorting and the convenience of using imported pellets because they are pre-sorted already by weight.

Look somewhere else in the forum for another discussion about the preferences of each barrel to particular brand of pellet.

[lhanjoe111810]

huhuhu...tnkz anyway sir...nw i knw dli jud pwde mgmit ang imported pellets sa armscor...

[lhanjoe111810]

Features:

Accuracy to 0.01 gram
Maximum capacity of 200 grams
Tare function
Option for 6units
g/oz/ozt/dwt
Backlight LCD Display
Powered by 2xAAA Batteries
Features a robust plastic case and leather pouch
Overall dimension is 114mm x 76mm x 20mm
Weight : 145g

Specification:

Tare feature
It features a clear digital display
Accuracy for Grams to 0.01g
Auto turn off mode conserves battery life in case you forget.
Powered by 2 x AAA Batteries

sir ask ko lang po,ok po ba to gmitin ko na pang timbang ng pellets ko? kc yong gnagmit nyo kc nkalagay...555g x 0.1g.

may inorder po kc ako sa isang website at kong mayron po kaung alam kong ok po batong digi scale na to...pa share nman po...salamat ng marami

[batmon]

were not using that scale anymore.

ito gamit namin ngayon na scale.



www.americanweigh.com/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=516

[lhanjoe111810]

Nov 29, 2011 17:57:06 GMT 8 batmon said:

were not using that scale anymore.

ito gamit namin ngayon na scale.



www.americanweigh.com/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=516

kta ko na po sir batmon salamat,how can i buy/order this one?meron ba nito sa pinas?if panu nyo inorder sir?plz help plano ako bibili nang isa...salamat.

[bayabas76]

I do the Yrrah Definitive Roll Test..

just sharing a method which is very effective to me.